Yang Rui, etc.

For any foreigners currently living under a rock ((by which I mean not on Twitter)), I suppose I have to start by showing you this rant, posted by CCTV Dialogue host on Sina Weibo:

The Public Security Bureau wants to clean out the foreign trash: To arrest foreign thugs and protect innocent girls, they need to concentrate on the disaster zones in [student district] Wudaokou and [drinking district] Sanlitun. Cut off the foreign snake heads. People who can’t find jobs in the U.S. and Europe come to China to grab our money, engage in human trafficking and spread deceitful lies to encourage emigration. Foreign spies seek out Chinese girls to mask their espionage and pretend to be tourists while compiling maps and GPS data for Japan, Korea and the West. We kicked out that foreign bitch and closed Al-Jazeera’s Beijing bureau. We should shut up those who demonize China and send them packing.*

There are a lot of things I want to say about this, and most of them are swear words ((I seriously considered titling this post ‘Yang Rui Can Go Fuck Himself’)). However, you’ve probably got some creative epithets of your own swirling in your mind at this point, so let’s move on to some slightly more constructive avenues of discussion.

On Integrity

On reading this post, the first emotion that struck me — after anger, that is — was extreme regret. I have taped two episodes of CCTV Dialogue with Yang Rui, although the first one was never aired ((I never heard why, but I was speaking pretty candidly about the Wenzhou crash and I suspect that may have had something to do with it)), and now I really wish that I hadn’t. Of course, I had no way of knowing that nearly a year later, he’d be spewing such hateful nonsense, but I wish there was a way to delete myself from the program retroactively.

I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised. Yang was quite rude to me when the cameras were off before and after my appearances on Dialogue. At the time, I chocked it up to the ego that comes with being a professional television anchor ((albeit on a show that I don’t think anyone has ever watched a full episode of)). In retrospect I wonder if perhaps there was something more going on.

Either way though, I want to make it clear that what I regret is the association with him, not my appearance on CCTV in general. In the past, certain people have suggested foreigners who appear in or work for state media — myself included — lack integrity. I think that is nonsense. Although I long ago stopped writing occasional op-ed pieces for the Global Times and I have no intention of ever appearing on CCTV again, I don’t think having done either of those things has damaged my integrity. In both instances, I spoke honestly and directly in defense of my own viewpoints, and eschewed self-censorship ((which is why much of my work fell afoul of ACTUAL censorship)). I don’t regret anything I wrote or said ((At least not for political reasons. I regret a few of my Global Times columns just because they were bad writing, but that’s a separate issue.)), and I don’t think appearing in State media is tacit support of the Party or the Party line if what you’re saying is just as critical as what you’d say to any Western media outlet. Nor do I think taking their money to write content that discredits their editorials and their bosses is doing them any financial favors.

Some may disagree with me on this, and I do understand that point of view. But if I have a chance to go on State media and criticize the response to the Wenzhou train crash, I think that’s just as valuable, perhaps more valuable, than only sharing my criticism here. ((That said, as previously stated, I’m done with Dialogue and probably CCTV as a whole.))

On Soft Power

It’s interesting that this outburst came from Yang Rui, who is in some ways one of the faces of China’s soft power push. Dialogue is an English-language program, which means it is targeted at foreigners in China and abroad by default. The fact that its host (one of them, anyway) is apparently a racist xenophobe is probably indicative of how successful China’s soft power push is likely to be.

But beyond that, it is rather incredible that someone who has been talking to foreigners for years — indeed, someone who is supposed to be one of China’s representatives to foreigners — apparently knows so little about us that he actually believes crazy shit like this:

Foreigners who can’t find a job in their home country come to China and get involved in illegal business activities such as human trafficking and espionage; they also like to distribute lies which discredit China to persuade locals to move abroad. A lot of them look for Chinese women to live with as a disguise to further their espionage efforts. They pretend to be tourists traveling around the country while actually helping Japan and Korea make maps and collect GPS data for military purposes.

It’s so shocking, in fact, that some have wondered if this isn’t satire. I suppose it could be, but if so, Yang seems content to let people continue to think he was being serious; he has updated his Weibo numerous times since that post but none of the updates suggest he was kidding, and some of them suggest he definitely wasn’t. Plus, he doesn’t really seem like the sort for that kind of sarcasm.

If this were any other country, there would be rampant speculation that Yang Rui was about to lose his job. But this is China, and I think we all know that he won’t. That being a rabidly xenophobic (and apparently extremely stupid) person doesn’t disqualify you from holding a post that is dedicated entirely to dealing with foreigners is as strong a sign as any that China has no real interest in soft power. Or perhaps is just utterly incapable of implementing it.

Xenophobia and Weibo Responses

Yang’s comments come at a particularly sensitive time for foreigners, many of whom are concerned about their safety after a British scumbag and a Russian idiot have stirred up a lot of nationalist, anti-foreign sentiment online (all foreigners are the same, so we’re all guilty by association). Probably related is the crackdown on illegal foreigners in Beijing that Yang was commenting on. This crackdown is perfectly fair in theory — every country has immigration laws and the right to enforce them — but the language and imagery that’s being used to promote it is sort of concerning, as is the idea that foreigners will now be required to carry their papers at all times ((technically this has been legally true for a long time, but I’m not sure I’ve ever heard of it being enforced, and there’s no reason to enforce it because it’s pretty ridiculous)) and submit to random checks. Suddenly, Beijing is feeling a bit like Arizona (that’s not a good thing).

Anyway, the response to Yang Rui’s rant is comparatively heartening. Although there are some commenters who agree with him, there are many who don’t, and as usual, their sarcastic condemnations of his idiocy bring warmth to my twisted foreign heart. Some examples:

Host Yang, you haven’t gone far enough! We should bring back all the officials’ wives and children from overseas to help build the motherland, we must not allow them to be polluted by foreign trash, yes, and also we should close the borders/forbid international travel, so that there is no contact with overseas forces.

There is a reason fewer and fewer people are watching TV…

Yes, and we should close down all the TV channels that speak foreign languages! [Yang works for CCTV English]

At first I thought that it was just Mr. Yang’s English [abilities] that were disappointing, but now I see there are many disappointing things about him.

The fact that this CCTV host isn’t writing editorials for the Beijing Daily is truly a waste of talent.

Isn’t your daughter studying in the US?

Haha, so Yang Rui is really this big a dumbass. A dumbass pretending to be cool but actually a Boxer.

So this is the quality of CCTV? Anyway, where did you study your English? Do the people there think about you this way?

I want to ask, can you speak Chinese? How can someone so incoherent become a TV host…

This is exactly how the Boxer Rebellion started…

Of course, there are also comments in there that are serious and seriously disturbing. But it’s heartening to see that the sane people still seem to outnumber the racist xenophobes.

Stay safe, everyone.

ADDENDUM: This is probably obvious from the post itself, but I would strongly suggest that foreigners boycott CCTV Dialogue and decline any future invitations to appear on the program. There are numerous other ways to interact with the Chinese media; there is no need to support the efforts of a man who so clearly has nothing but hatred for foreigners.

*Note: I have switched out the Global Times translation for the better translation offered by the Wall Street Journal’s China Real Time blog. (Click that link for their full post on Yang).

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196 thoughts on “Yang Rui, etc.”

  1. truthspeaker, you are obviously paid government lackey. all the surrouding countries despise china. thats why they want usa to be there. yes and bring bo guagua back from harvard. daddy misses him in gulag. and he can see mommy before they chop off her head for murdering mr. heywood. xenophobia sucks.

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  2. To “truth”-nut,
    if you ask Japan, the Philippines, and Vietnam now, my guess is that some among them might beg to differ with your characterization of China’s stance in the region. And if China were to go ape-shit now, then that’s the “weariness” to which I referred. SHouldn’t need to draw it out any clearer than that.

    Since you seem to feel that the Boxers were the real deal, I think it’s safe to assume that Yang is just a racist xenophobe newbie compared to an established wing-nut like you.

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  3. greg
    all the surrouding countries despise china. thats why they want usa to be there

    Their motivations are cowardice and opportunism. Don’t mistake these for higher faculties such as hatred.

    Cheung
    if you ask Japan, the Philippines, and Vietnam now, my guess is that some among them might beg to differ with your characterization of China’s stance in the region.

    Oh yes, because between Japan and China, the latter is clearly the historical aggressor. Might want to watch who you call a wing-nut.

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  4. “latter is clearly the historical aggressor.”
    —ummm, it’s 2012. Not 1930. I’m talking about stuff in 2012. What, exactly, are you talking about (or maybe I should ask “when”, eh?)?

    And, Mr. Wingnut, you seemed to ignore the Philippines and Vietnam (and again, I’m talking 2012, not the age-old stuff you’d at least acknowledged wrt Vietnam). Gotta love the cherry-picking that you folks do.

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  5. I’m amazed at how China’s on-line fenqing and fiddy-cent community turn up an endless stream of willing fools like “truth seeker” who do hatred so well, and can regurgitate some facts out of context but can’t express a reasonable thought or write a logical sentence to save their life. They then get laughed off a thread or eviscerated by SK Cheung and disappear — only to pop up again with the same bad habits but a different Orwellian name. Does the PRC really pay people to debase themselves and waste bandwidth this way?

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  6. Cheung
    And, Mr. Wingnut, you seemed to ignore the Philippines and Vietnam

    You mean not dignifying Filipino and Vietnamese attempts to steal Chinese territory?

    slim
    fenqing and fiddy-cent

    You have USGov and corporate media so far up your ass I’m surprised (or disappointed) that you can breathe. Don’t be so eager to lick SK’s jock, there have been no real arguments so far – not that he wins many of them.

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  7. To Wing-nut,
    well, it seems Chinaguy is confined to the literal, while you have extremely limited short term memory. I’m assuming you’ve completed your escapade to the 1930s and have now rejoined civilization (as much as you are capable of) in 2012.

    Let’s refresh your memory, shall we?

    First, you suggested that even if China went ape-shit, she would still be loved in many parts of the world outside of Europe and America.

    I then pointed out that certain parts of Asia might react to such ape-shittedness with more weary than love.

    You then went time-travelling.

    I tried to bring you back to the future…which is really just the present, where certain parts of Asia might be a little weary if China went ape-shit today, historical trends notwithstanding.

    And suddenly that’s “dignifying Filipino and Vietnamese attempts to steal Chinese territory”?!?

    Do you logic much? You really should start, then maybe teach your fellow wanderers who can’t seem to walk a figurative straight line with your thoughts. Logic is, as Don Draper would say, “delicate…but potent”. You guys really should try it.

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  8. I then pointed out that certain parts of Asia might react to such ape-shittedness with more weary than love.

    Do you mean WARY or weary? I know you have trouble with words. China has done nothing previously to “tax” them, so I don’t know what would justify weariness, unless you mean they’re just oh so tired of trying to rob the Chinese nation.

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  9. You have already been properly dispensed with, truth seeker. Back to Hidden Harmonies and their patented Logic-proof Bubble for you. Chop chop!

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  10. slim
    HIDDEN HARMONIES! FENQING! FIFTY CENTS! REPITLIANS!

    Don’t forget to take your thorazine

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  11. Don’t fall into the trap of mistaking your mindless circlejerk for argumentation. I’m still waiting for any points you might have.

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  12. To wing-nut,
    my mistake. SHould be “wary”.

    Let me know if that changes your need for time travel, or if my mistake predicated your failure of logic above. If so, my apologies. If not, then remember it’s 2012, and learn some logic.

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  13. To Slim,
    not sure if he’s HH or not. Usually, the HH boys at least have the good sense to not wander too far off the reservation, excepting maybe a Charles Liu or a pugster. On the other hand, I doubt multiple handles and sock-puppets are beyond their grasp. So we might say our wing-man here is like an HH type, but we probably can’t say he is an HH type.

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  14. Cheung
    SHould be “wary”.

    Oh sorry, I guess I should have assumed you failed basic English classes. I was wondering, considering you used the wrong word twice.

    But no, I highly doubt Vietnam or the Philippines would care.

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  15. “But no, I highly doubt Vietnam or the Philippines would care”
    —well, you’re entitled to your opinion, for what that’s worth. Not sure how that dove-tails with the “not dignifying Filipino and Vietnamese attempts to steal Chinese territory” little rant from earlier. But hey, at least welcome back to 2012. Best wishes on your journey towards acquiring some logic, as described in 0258hrs above. Happy trails.

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  16. “If this were any other country, there would be rampant speculation that Yang Rui was about to lose his job.”

    Oh! xenophobic1 x xenophobic2

    Mr Custer, for a liberal and democrat doesn’t exists “collective quilt”. Your trivial generalization doesn’t give me the right
    to say that *americans are arrogants*…In Latin America I am
    tired of banal generalizations against north american citizens, but after reading that you are good at generalizations I can say that in my opinion your are an arrogant person.

    Both Yang Rui and you should go back to school!

    Odair G Martins
    Sao Paulo, Brazil

    PS: Your chinageek.com is very pretentious, remembers me
    the old europeans trying to domesticate/educate the native americans
    and africans — your site in general is arrogant and stupid like the message of Yang Rui.

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  17. So, has Mr Yang apologised yet?

    No apology from Mr Yang = No other country has to ever apologise again for “hurting the feelings of the Chinese people”

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  18. “Back to Hidden Harmonies and their patented Logic-proof Bubble for you.”

    Couldn’t possibly be patented. Wouldn’t meet the novelty and non-obviousness requirements.

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  19. Sorry for the chinageeks.com…

    Mr Custer, you made a brief judgment of Mr Yang and just write down the punishment: he must be fired. If this were a mere opinion, ok. But, look, do not go against stupidy with cultural revolution methods.

    The communists, together witht the north americans soldiers, were fighting fascism at WWII. That war gave birth to the PRC.
    Americans soldiers helped the begining of the PRC.

    It is good to remember that communists and rich and poor liberals have im common many french revolution values.

    I judge, not being a communist myself, but studying their role at the last century, the message of Mr Yang Rui was not in line with core communist values. I am sorry if I am writting like People’s Daily editorials, but I want to be understood by chinese communists of all kind of reddiness – maoists and non maoists, leftists or pink.

    In the communist ranks may have differences about the role of market, individual freedoms, the role of the party etc, but the *narrow* nationalism was never well valued, I think so. The tragic
    of Mr Yang’s message is to show how a chinese communist affiliate,
    I guess by the importance of his work, flirts with fascism.

    In our days is banal to be anticommnunist and one can be rich becoming a professional anticommunist, like when URSS was on rise. We cannot consider the message of Mr Yang as a chinese communist party campaign, but as a communist party fragility symptom. After having chats with many young chinese visiting Brazil I became worried by how many of them were anticommunists but nationalists in extremum. They consider, without any evidence, that corrupt Communist officials were selling China to Japan and USA and that without the sonolent officials of the CPC China would be stronger and a true superpower. After that I begin thinking that if PRC is bad with the rule of the CPC, PRC will goes worse without it. I have to agree with comments of the libertarian Justin Raimondo of http://www.antiwar.com that it is a bad choice and a bad bet a China without the CPC – instead of the communists we will see the rule of the barbarians. Nowdays the CPC is a huge chinese institution that puts under some rational scrutiny the many irrational beliefs that I heard from many chinese youth. But not only irrational beliefs from the youth, but also irrational beliefs from modern economists that think that they have a real science.

    What makes the matter worse is that the USA government have been
    making the defense of human rights and democracy a tool for its global
    supremacy, a tool for a new type of cold war. Nowdays many activists
    of human rights are, without strong evidence, tagged as *americans spy agents*, as were in the old days of the URSS, because there are plenty of news that following the steps of human rights activists goes the US Marines boots under the flag of a flagile ONU or under the flag of OTAN. A paranoid state o mind is back again in some places — USA, China, Venezuela, Bolivia, Equador,Cuba, Siria, Russia, Coreas, etc.

    What makes the matter still worse is that many citizens of USA are
    placing national security above true individual liberty. At each day USA society is becoming more and more fascist at some degree.

    We need a new global popular coalition against the new *popular* fascism
    which we see in many places of the world: in USA, Europe, China, Asia, Russia, USA and Brazil. We have fascism in Brazil too, mainly in south and southeast middle class. After the global liberal economic reform failure in giving economic security and stability for the common folks of the planet, we have to live with the rise of a new global and popular fascism. The CPC will play a key role in the defense of global human rights and democracy if it begins to get support from foreign noncomunists that places human rights and democracy above the narrow interests of national supremacy and narrow nationalisms. It would be fantastic if United States and China were working together to decrease the economic insecurity of the common people of USA, China, Vietnan, Philipinnes, Brazil, Africa, Europe and so on. The current global economic crisis is generating fascisms,
    not the end of capitalism as many in occupy wall street is dreaming.

    The better way to be an antifascist and human right activist in China
    is to live in accordance with the chinese rules and not under the rules of the old cold war. I live outside China but know that in the chinese contituition the CPC rules the country. If Mr Yang Rui is a CPC member he must obey party rules and instructions. I suggest you, Mr Cutter, to make a representation
    at the central CPC party disciplinary organs against MR Yang message
    and you will get the support of all antifascists — communists and noncommunists, rich and poor — of the world.

    Dont be ashamed by following the chinese constituition and rules — they are as bad as many constituitions and laws of the world — see the example of Guantanamo.
    The rules are imperfect; they are rules.

    Chinese and American rules are in life by the violence at hand
    of the State. In China you and Yang Rui must obey chineses laws and rules, I suppose. Why only Mr Yang Rui have said to sue you?
    He believes in chineses rules and you dont? It
    is clear to me, like water, that you are in a better position than him
    because you have both old chinese and communists core values at your side and Mr Yang Rui have nothing, only poor generalizations. If you sue Mr Yang Rui and you win you are afrait that this would be understood as victory of the propaganda of the CPC that in China there are the rule of the rules and note of the rule of the ruler? Fascist-type and racist commentaries must be put in check following local rules and traditions. You, MR Cutter, by not believing in the power of the chinese rules and traditions to contain racism and fascism is not good at
    the good war against the chinese racism and chauvinism. You
    are confused between following the cold war logic, the logic of colonialist arrogance or the logic of chinese laws that put the CPC on the command of the State, which perhaps dont follows your and mine personal taste
    and political beliefs but may contain rampant chinese chovinism, racism and fascism at weibo.

    The central organs of the CPC will judge Mr Yang and they will certainly
    give the sentence following some party traditions. But
    be cool if they dont fire Mr Yang and gives him only some
    censures. In China and in the World there are many youngs that are many and many times worse than MR Yang Rui and you have to consider all his life not only a momentum of him. — I bet that CCTV doesnt have a better one in this time of general global light(?) fascism and God save the CPC in this new time of new cold war, hypocrisy and veiled global fascism. We have the good luck that Mr Yang Rui is under the disciplinary authoritarian jaconin rule of the old Ilumminism of the commnunists parties, that are against torture and chauvinism, as said by the blind activist to Mr Wen Jiabao. We non cold-war minded non-communists of the world must say to communists that they have to be communists of some kind but never nacional-socialists – it is not hilarious; it is tragic. The chinese communists of all ranks have not to be afraid of this new type of cold war made in USA if they follow core universal human values without hesitations like the ones presented by Mr Yang Rui.

    In Brazilian Portuguese we say: Yang Rui enfiou o pé na jaca
    e o Sr. Custer lambusou-se na meleca.

    Sorry my portugenglish.

    Odair G Martins
    Sao Paulo, Brazil

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  20. Special K
    dove-tails with the “not dignifying Filipino and Vietnamese attempts to steal Chinese territory” little rant from earlier.

    Go to dictionary.com and enter “weary” into the prompt

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  21. Thanks Odair, I missed this gem:

    “If this were any other country, there would be rampant speculation that Yang Rui was about to lose his job.”

    Right, like how Japanese politicians lose their jobs when they call Koreans and Chinese “sangokujin”?

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  22. “Go to dictionary.com and enter “weary” into the prompt”
    —like I said, my mistake. Luckily for me, my spelling deficiencies can be rectified by a spell-checker or a dictionary.

    However, you’re saddled with a serious case of crappy-to-non-existent capacity for logic. That, I’m afraid, will likely require a brain-transplant. Good luck with that.

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  23. As for the “disputed” territories, ownership is contested and who knows how that will turn out. But I’m not sure how convincing the claim is when it is based upon people having fished there a few hundred or thousand years ago. Especially when that is put up against geographic proximity to other claimants. But like I said, logic ain’t your thing. Hey, but time travel is…if only one of those historic fisherman had stuck a PRC flag down on some of those contested spots…then the claim would be rock-solid (pun intended).

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  24. Cheung
    However, you’re saddled with a serious case of crappy-to-non-existent capacity for logic.

    You’re painfully stupid. My statements make perfect sense as the original context of your post.

    ownership is contested

    Right … like how ownership of your house is contested if I suddenly claim it’s mine, because it’s next to my grandmother’s friend’s roommate’s dog’s house.

    geographic proximity to other claimants

    Hanoi is quite close to Guangdong, I guess it’s Chinese. The Falklands is close to Argentina, I guess it’s Argentine.

    Hey, but time travel is…if only one of those historic fisherman had stuck a PRC flag

    Oh yeah too bad Ho Chi Minh didn’t sign off the islands to China, Japan and France didn’t cede them to China, and every major power in the world didn’t recognize them as part of China for over a hundred years. Too bad China isn’t the only real naval power in the region, and has been since the Ming Dynasty.

    Whoops, that’s not right, they actually did.

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  25. actually did, and were *

    tacked that last part on there as it came to mind. You have a lot of reading to do, but I don’t think that can fix stupid.

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  26. seriously, quit the name calling already and continue bashing the proper way.

    claiming the long dead great uncle’s old fishing hole is exclusive family property is kind of weak when the guys living next to the fishing hole probably used it long before it was even mapped

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  27. claiming the long dead great uncle’s old fishing hole is exclusive family property is kind of weak when the guys living next to the fishing hole probably used it long before it was even mapped

    Except China is the only state in the region to actually have a factual basis upon which to claim “continuity”, thus the long dead uncle would be the predecessors of the Vietnamese state (and the non-existent states of the Philippines which never existed).

    So yeah, you’re on the wrong side of the argument. The important thing that no one wants to admit is that China was responsible for nearly all trade and defense along the coast for thousands of years and everyone prospered as a result.

    Vietnam simply has 0 historical claim to the area, unless you think letting someone use your bathroom means they now have rights to your home.

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  28. actually, that was way off topic. my apologies.

    On topic, this looks to be a missed opportunity to cry “hurt feelings” and protest like it’s a campaign rally outside the brand new CCTV HQ building. But I guess he didn’t mean foreigners are goons and thugs either, just the implied 2% of ill-mannered idiots.

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  29. last off topic post before I start ignoring replies:

    the long dead uncle actually refers to china 3-4(5?) dynasties back. some time between then and now, the area ceased to be controlled by china. also between then and now, other players started to control the area. it all comes down to either being realistic or being a cry baby.

    it’s nice that once upon a time china made the area safe for everyone. oh wait, what everyone? there was no philippine state to enjoy the safe trade (actually looks like there was). maybe they just sailed out there and fished without chinese permission.

    That’s more then enough off-topic

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  30. Nice try.

    it all comes down to either being realistic or being a cry baby.

    Yep. China could easily push Vietnam and the Philippines out of their holdings. Taiwan and China own the biggest and most promising important islets. China has the industrial capacity to suck out all of the oil in what remains. It’s about being realistic or being a cry baby.

    Luckily for the two cry babies, China is happy to share.

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  31. the long dead uncle actually refers to china 3-4(5?) dynasties back.

    Nope. There never was an uncle. China has been territorially intact for roughly 800 years now.

    The Philippines can thank China for never wiping them off the face of the planet, and act duly.

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  32. To Wingnut:
    “My statements make perfect sense…”
    —the next time that sentence rings true would be the first time.

    “like how ownership of your house is contested if I suddenly claim it’s mine, because it’s next to my grandmother’s friend’s roommate’s dog’s house.”
    —I could see how that analogy might fly for someone with no sense of logic like you. But those territories are contested because ownership has never been established. Unlike ownership of my house, for instance. If you need me to draw out the intestines further for you, just ask.

    “Hanoi is quite close to Guangdong,”
    —again, the lack of logic in the analogy is awe-inspiring. Hanoi is not contested. Next you’re going to bring up Niagara Falls and Buffalo, or Windsor and Detroit. It’s not just proximity, stupid. It’s proximity of something that is contested. For instance, I believe the Shoals are within the 200 nautical mile zone that marks Philippine territorial waters. You really ought to look into that brain transplant, cuz your capacity for logic is decidedly low-rent.

    “actually have a factual basis upon which to claim “continuity””
    —like I said earlier, yeah, they fished in some of those spots, but that’s not ownership.

    “China was responsible for nearly all trade and defense along the coast for thousands of years and everyone prospered as a result.”
    —and they should be thankful. But it does not confer ownership.

    “China could easily push Vietnam and the Philippines out of their holdings”
    —that’s actually true. Which is probably why those guys are now welcoming the Americans.

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  33. SK Cheung
    ownership has never been established.

    Yes, it has. China allowed Mongols to come down and graze in their territory for thousands of years. It doesn’t mean Shanxi is Mongolia. Get your head out of your ass.

    Shoals are within the 200 nautical mile zone that marks Philippine territorial waters.

    Too bad, fucktard. They were never terra nullius.

    But it does not confer ownership.

    Yes, it does. It’s far more legitimate than British claims to the Falklands.

    that’s actually true. Which is probably why those guys are now welcoming the Americans.

    Too bad that America can’t do anything – lest they want to trigger their own financial meltdown. If it comes down to it, China or Taiwan can just sink Vietnamese and Filipino boats.

    If they really want to be uppity and learn how willing China (either one) is to defend their territory, they might see their coastal cities get shelled.

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